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From: tactical
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:41:06 +0200
Subject: [tacticalmedialist] Black Bloc Forum (In
 


Statement by Black Block activists
by - 9:06pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 11:35pm Sat
Jul 21 '01)


Genoa, July 21st 2001,
by participants of the Black Block

We are speaking out for a part of the black block.

We do not want to submit helplessly into the politics
of the powerful. We have come to enter militantly the
red zone and to stop the g8 meeting.

Yesterday the police acted brutally against the
protesters. Protesters were beaten up, were attacked
with tear gas and shock bullets, they were imprisoned
and tortured. The police brutality culminated in the
murder of one protester.

In the published opinion the black block was made
responsible for the whole violence.

Day by day, the capitalist world order produces a
diversity of violence. Poverty, hunger, expilsion,
exclusion, the death of millions of people and the
destruction of living spaces is part fo their policy.

This is exactly what we reject.

Smashed windows of banks and multinational companies
are symbolic actions. Nevertheless we do not agree
with the destruction and looting of small shops and
cars. This is not our policy.

However, we also do not let us be divided. To divide
resistance is a usual way to weaken resistance. We
appreciate and count on solidaric criticism.

We are angry and sad about the murder of Carlo
Giuliane. Let us turn our grief and anger into
resistance.

If windows rattle then you cry,
but you are silent when people die.

History does never end. Viva la revolution!

--------------------------------

Report from Black Block action Friday 20/7

by alien8 2:19pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 4:16pm Tue Jul 24 '01)

During the past two days, the expression "Black Block" has been linked to 
mindless destruction, splits in the movement, and even "agents 
provocateurs". This is a report of a Black Block demo early on Friday, July 
20th, which was part of the numerous attempts to breach the red zone.

Several hundred people from the park-campsite, east of the media centre, 
had planned to meet up with a Black Block march coming from the Social 
Centre Pinelli and then move towards the red zone together. But as Pinelli 
was surrounded by police and the people in there couldn´t get out, the 
roughly 300 people from the camp decided to move downtown alone. A 
powerful, impressive Black Block procession started and met up with a 
radical unionists demo on Buenos Aires, fairly close to the red zone. Parts 
of the Black Block targeted several banks and an estate agency, which had 
their windows smashed. In a side street, other Black Block people attacked 
a police barricade sealing off the red zone with stones and molotov 
cocktails. Police responded shooting large numbers of tear gas canisters at 
the crowd and then coming after the dispersing demo. Battles with the 
police occured on Corso Torino, which ended with both groups - police and 
Black Block - retreating and re-grouping elsewhere.

The common march of the 300 or so Black Block people, however, conceals the 
important fact that there was an important difference between the various 
groups that took part in the demo - a different political objective which 
eventually helped to split the group. The majority of Black Block people 
supported property damage only when it happened against important symbols 
of capitalism (such as banks) or against transnational corporations with a 
history of human rights abuses etc. For example, they smashed a window of a 
Lufthansa office and then wrote "Stop deportation" next to the smashed 
window (Lufthansa is involved in deporting refugees back to countries where 
they are tortured and often killed). This part of the Black Block is 
strictly against damaging small shops or cars. However, there was also a 
minority of other Black Block people who started to attack cars, shops and 
other property, mostly based on frustration about the difficulties of 
getting near the red zone. The first Black Block group did not appreciate 
this, tried to stop some of the destruction and eventually moved away. 
Similarly, another Black Block demo later on the day split up when the 
majority of Black Block activists no longer wanted to demonstrate together 
with some people who damaged anything and not just specific targets.

When talking about "the Black Block", it is important to define WHICH Black 
Block we mean. The majority of Black Block demonstrators target specific 
property but do not enagage in random destruction. Certainly, the vast 
majority of Black Block demonstrators are NOT infiltrators!


  -------------------------

violents must die, all of them

by villi 2:31pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 2:35pm Tue Jul 24 '01)

i don't care if you're breaking the windows of a company who's been 
involved in (so called) human rights abuse.
Violence brings violence and then more violence and then again more and 
more violence.
I don't give a fuck about different "black block" activists, they're all 
fuckin violents, and they'll get what they give.
A word to them: if Beretta bullets can kill, also poles, staffs and other 
objects in your hand can kill. So beware, you know what you give.
BTW, i don't want a world designed by these killers, i just prefer a darn 
world as this one, it's sure 1000 tyimes better than a world of violent 
bastards.
Black block = violence, violence = deaths, injureds, damages.
Fuckoff and die, all of you fuckin' idiots Black Block.

------------------------------------------------


Block the violence!!!!!!!
by Daniele 3:07pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 2:47pm Tue Jul 24 '01)

Black blocks have ruined the pacific acitons of these days and have a big 
responsability in the damages and in the violent atmosphere that has caused 
the death of Carlo Giuliani

------------------------------------


Factions, Fractions, and Fact
by xeruiasar@hotmail.com 3:54pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 2:47pm Tue Jul 
24 '01)


The Genoa Black Block article by alien8 describes a specific microcosm; yet 
this is mirrored in the general macrocosm. Any group of people who come 
together for a common purposes only thinly disguises the myriad of personal 
agendas present. As situations and circumstance become squeezed by Hazard, 
those personal agendas take on a greater importance... and the inevitable 
fractionation occurs. This is simply an aspect of the human condition.

"Are you the People's Jewdian Front or the Front of Jewdian People?" as 
Monty Python observed.

The issue at hand, however, is that the extreme factions become a visible 
target for the (varying) agendas of the opposition, and the media machines. 
The loose aliance of the whole becomes (delibereately) tainted by images of 
the tight extremist factions. In this way, Genoa in a day mirrors the 
ageless conflicts of the world at large.

Fact and fiction have always been odd bedfellows, each being the flip side 
of the other. Is it, therefore, any surprise that the facts, such as they 
are, become twisted into fiction and myth for each side's benefit? And let 
us not forget that The Global Protest Movement itself thrives on mythos and 
fiction (which comprise its justification) every bit as much as The 
Guardian's of Global Capitalism.

And when we have all understood this, the propoganda wars may stop, and the 
real issues debated. Until then, violence (of all sorts for all sides) will 
remain the norm.

----------------------------------------


Mindless pacifists
by giti 4:15pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 2:46pm Tue Jul 24 '01)

You all so called pacifists are mindless. For decades you gave nothing to 
thw social liberation. You only enforce domination. The murderers are fully 
armed, killing etc. and you speak as if they were human.
You so called anarchists must decide. The social liberation struggle is not 
a fiesta. It costs. An you, who are ready to lick the cops, stop blaming 
those fighters for social freedom.
And you, who speak about violence,in general, are completely blind, so you 
can't see the everyday violence of state and capitalism.

-----------------------------------------

anarchist ???????
by davide 4:35pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 9:50pm Mon Jul 23 '01)



Maybe I could agree on targeted property destructions.
Maybe I can believe that "When talking about "the Black Block", it is 
important to define WHICH Black Block we mean. The majority of Black Block 
demonstrators target specific property but do not enagage in random 
destruction. Certainly, the vast majority of Black Block demonstrators are 
NOT infiltrators!"

But I think right now all of this sounds kinda like bullshit, seen that as 
usual have the only effect of helping Berluska and his fascist friends to 
find more excuses for repressions.

I wonder how will be the life of squatted places after this ..

--------------------------------------------------



The Black Bloc needs to be abandoned
by Pierre 5:14pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 7:00pm Sun Jul 22 '01)



The Black Bloc is dying. It has become too easy to manipulate. I was once 
incredibly supportive and even participated in this tactic.

All that I can say is, all the anarchists in the Black Bloc who had common 
sense not to destroy local businesses and property, and to graffiti their 
messages rather than setting up or falling for easy traps, need to reform.

The Blue Bloc? The White Bloc? Then the next protest, all the police agents 
will be much easier to spot, while if others act like mindless thugs in the 
new bloc, they would be committing acts against the intentions of that 
bloc, putting much more accountability on them. No accountability, no 
ethics = mess waiting to happen. Way too easy for infiltrators to fuck over.


-----------------------------------------------

aiutatemi
by chiquita 5:21pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 12:14am Tue Jul 24 '01)



esiste un sito ufficiale dei black block?
me lo segnalate per favore???

-------------------------------------


Violence comes from THE STATE not the Black Block
by Flamma 6:08pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 11:38am Tue Jul 24 '01)



THE COPS are the ones beating our comrades in the streets, they are the 
MURDERERS, they have the guns, and the tear gas, and the batons, and the 
riot gear. Blaming the Black Block for the violence is ridiculous. Property 
destruction is just a pretext, if it wasn't that the pigs would have found, 
or created another reason to attack. They have the numbers, they are armed 
against a crowd that has stones at best, they are scared and itching to 
show how powerful they are.
Don't be a fool, the Black Block is not the enemy.
It's the PIGS with the guns and the riot gear!
And if property destruction hurts the capitalist pigs where it hurts the 
most -- in their wallets -- then GO FOR IT! SMASH IT DOWN!
The pigs are the enemy, and we have been at war for a long time. Just until 
now, other oppressed peoples were the victims.
Solidarity!

----------------------------------------

Stop the violence
by Graeme K 6:45pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 9:19pm Mon Jul 23 '01)



I defend anybody's right to defend themselves against police violence and 
can understand the frustations and anger which lead to activist violence.
We must not provoke the police, we can only overthrow the system with the 
majority of people. A minority of violent protestors cannot otherthrow 
capitalism and can act as a deterant for many sympathisers and justify 
further police repression. The violent tactics we have seen within the 
black bloc are counter-productive and lead to the defeat of the 1968 movement.

-------------------------------------

well...
by mitchey 6:52pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 4:02pm Sun Jul 22 '01)



if the majority of the black bloc doesn't approve of this or that, and they 
don't have their shit together before the bullets fly, how can they expect 
anyone, including those sympathetic to the cause of justice to do their 
thinking for them*AFTER* the fact if you can't sort out shat kind of 
violence yer gonna do,and your willing to do much actual thinking before 
hand,then it's IMPOSSIBLE to take them sriously

--------------------------------------------------



thanks blocks!!
by delete 6:56pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 12:22am Sun Jul 22 '01)



support the people!!
support the actions!!
support the blocks!!

black block saved me sometimes, thanks!!
disorganitation and disovediency!!

--------------------------------------------


Pacifism is pathological
by deconstruction 7:32pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 7:56pm Sun Jul 22 '01)



To the person who wrote that all 'violents' must die really needs to put 
things into perspective.
First, the Black Bloc has not ever killed a single person. Our brother who 
died yesterday was
killed by the italian paramilitary police. The state, private power, and 
the cops who protect them
kill countless numbers of people. Don't you think that the presence of 
thousands of riot cops,
paramilitaries, and the authorities scaring away the locals is violence, 
terrorism and a provocation. Their
whole existence is rooted in violence. Also, once knowing the level of 
state repression/murder, and not doing
anything about it, and even persecuting those who do fight, ARE, by 
default, guilty of sanctioning the
deaths of many innocent people. There is no such thing as being neutural or 
objective, because when
you pretend to do so, you are simply reinforcing and reproducing the 
dominant order. Also, if you have
been paying attention, you would have seen that from SeattleN30 till Genoa, 
There have been numerous
times when the police attacked and gassed "non violent protesters".
Get a CLUE dude and turn that anger you have (its obvious) agaainst the 
black block into something
more productive than dogmatism. I have a name for people like you: 
AUTHORITARIAN PACIFIST!

-------------------------------------------



black block saved me
by joe 7:40pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 1:34am Sun Jul 22 '01)



the black block saved me from getting creamed by the police in seattle.
they also limit the amount of teargas that pacifists have to inhale.

-----------------------------------------------


Our Forces
by DV8 7:45pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 1:37am Sun Jul 22 '01)



Be it as it may, there are some among us who either thrive in situations of 
violence, or at least know how to handle them in one way or the other ... 
the other side has them too ... in their world those people are called 
police, guards and soldiers, they supposedly provide something called 
public security.

So the thing we need to do is to organise with the black block people so 
they protect the other protesters from violent police action - which is a 
given fact with or without violent action to spark it off - and FIGHT BACK!!!

If we ostracize them and let ourselves be manipulated by the mainstream 
paradigm into believing that those people are harful to our cause, we will 
lose. They'll track us, round us up and arrest us if they can't keep us 
away with repression anyway.

Ask yourself, every one of you who is against violence, who will hold the 
police back for you to get away safely if there's no black block activists?

--------------------------------------

power to-the-Black-Block
by noitarebil 9:35pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 1:31am Sun Jul 22 '01)



this-is-in-response-to-the-completely-illogical-and-downright-idiotic-comment-made-by-some-pacifist.--Violence-exists,it-has-always-existed,and-as-long-as-the-state-exists,it-will-continue-to-exist.--Non-violence-is-NOT-a-tactic,-it-is-not-a-choice.--It-is-a-front-for-cowardice.--If-we-are-serious-about-creating-a-true-anarchist-society,-we-have-to-realize-that-the-state-will-use-all-means-available-to-defeat-us.--Let-me-assure-everyone-that-ALL-peacefull-tactics-are-no-match-against-a--professional-army-with-ground-attack-aircraft,-battle-tanks,etc.--sit-ins--cannot-win-a-class-war.--this-state-repression-is-just-the-beggining.--we-have-to-be-getting-ready-for-a-war

----------------------------------------------


Yippee Black Block!
by Monster 9:41pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 1:40am Sun Jul 22 '01)



Hurrah for the Black Bloc! They are the only ones (in past actions) who 
have un-arrested people!

----------------------------------------



This is not a Hippie-Party
by tom 10:03pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 12:05am Sun Jul 22 '01)



I agree to deconstruction. How many people have been killed by police, 
secret-agents and fascists? And I don´t remember one case of a person 
killed by the "black block". This discussion about violence leads to no 
point and only helps the state, the politicians and its media who wants to 
divide the movement.
And for example in Germany where are nearly each day fascist marches, 
protected by the police and the law, militant antifascists and Autonome are 
confronting the Nazis and the police without fear of their own health. 
Thanx to them!
So if you attack capitalism you must be consequently, this is not a party 
-- the real violence and agression comes from the system!
Fight fascism - smash capitalism

-----------------------------------------


Violence *worse* than ineffective
by Liam 10:53pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 11:23am Tue Jul 24 '01)



That anyone would still be defending violence at this point is a depressing 
reminder of how far we have to go!

The writer unwittingly accepts the paradigm which underlies the political 
and social structures we are trying to change. Using the violence of your 
opponent to justify your own violence simply reinforces the idea that 
violence is a legitimate way of exercising political control.

The distinction the writer makes between "working class" violence and 
"ruling class" violence is academic. The question is not whether one is 
more justified than the other. They *both* feed the cycle of escalating 
violence. We cannot expect the police to end that cycle, since they are 
responsible for maintaining the status quo, and the status quo is one in 
which violence permeates our social, political and economic relationships 
(as the writer correctly observes). What we *can* do is change the 
"climate" in which they operate. Our tactics should be ones which the 
police are incapable of dealing with. Our goal should be to make the police 
literally useless.

Violence is something the police know how to deal with. It is the nail to 
their hammer. It is the reason they use (e.g. in Prague) agents 
provocateurs to help get the action going. If the police are inciting the 
same behavior the black-bloc advocates, doesn't that tell you something? 
You are playing right into their hands!

One thing is clear. Violence is *worse* than ineffective. It is 
counter-productive. It actually moves us backward, away from the goals its 
proponents espouse. Our best efforts at this point should be focused not on 
the G8 or the WTO, but on our own tactics and our mutual understanding of 
what we are attempting to do.

So I favor *sharpening* the division between the small number advocating 
violence and the rest of us. Not by blaming the black-bloc, but by inviting 
friendly confrontation with them, dialogue and debate. Somewhere there is 
common ground. But we won't find it by sweeping our differences under the 
rug, or looking the other way, or name calling, or denying responsibility, 
or rationalizing our emotional reactivity. Let's not be afraid to take this 
issue on!

I think it is inevitable that as non-violent activists increasingly take 
responsibility for their own actions we will be forced to acknowledge our 
indirect complicity in the actions of the black-bloc. Out of that 
realization, I hope, will come a deeper understanding of what is, and is 
not, effective, and a *genuine* solidarity among people who are serious 
about change.

-----------------------------------------


All Brave, but some knuckle headed Anarchists need to target confrontation
by uda 11:43pm Sat Jul 21 '01 (Modified on 7:28pm Sun Jul 22 '01)


Look, Anarchists have a different theory of history, social change and 
revolution than the rest. The movement is complicated. Some Social 
Anarchists have more in common with Trots than with lifestyle anarchists, 
if only they could get rid of the Marxist baggage about objective 
conditions and the inevitablity of revolution. Anarchists know, unlike the 
liberals, social democrats, and marxists that it isn't just "corporations", 
it's the State too. Anarchists also know that, unlike the others, that you 
don't wait around for the revolution or else great social forces will 
calcify and their leadership will regain control and form a parasitic 
relationship to the State. This does mean that every moment is a 
revolutionary moment but it does mean that you must confront the State to 
test potential moments and as a component to the building of a mass 
movement. I am a member of an Anarchist group in my area and we have been 
saddened, frustrated and inspired by the events in Genoa. What some 
anarchists don't understand yet is that the tactics need to be diversified 
for maximum rhetorical effect and to mimic anarchist principles. This means 
violent confrontation sometimes and at other time non-violent confrontation 
(Gandhi was an Anarchist too,if sketchy about certain political decisions). 
Anarchists believe in direct democracy in all economic and political 
affairs. This means they value highly debate and words. However, they also 
understand that under imperialism and capitalism the State will not fall 
without direct confrontation. No anarchists should be attacking the rank 
and file of the social democratic groups nor should there be other random 
violence. Instead they should only be defending themselves and others, 
concentrating violent action in breaking into the red zone in the demands 
of popular democracy, in an effort to challenge those G8 leaders to a 
debate. And when they refuse, then they have missed an opportunity, and 
take a beating/killing from the cops. This could be their first warning. 
Maybe one more and then fire back. Most people respect such principled 
action. Social Anarchism is the present and future of true revolution. 
Direct Democracy is what the Liberals, Communists, Maoists and Trots have 
always betrayed.

-----------------------------------------------------


Carlo & the Black Block
by Th. Franke, Prague 2:12am Sun Jul 22 '01
th_fr@gmx.net


1. The club of G8-rulers are the gangleaders of the murderers that have our 
planet in their grip. Thousands of kids dying of curable diseases every 
day, people driven to suicide by unbearable conditions in your 
neighborhood, people killed in car crashes, the whole globe held to ransom 
by carbon dioxid polluters, all our life in the grip of capitalism.
One of these murders happened on the streets of Genoa on Friday, in plain 
view for the whole world to see - Carlo hit by two bullets in the head and 
run over by a jeep, executed for attempting to throw a fire extinguisher at 
those who were protecting the warlords.
The violence of the black block pales into nothingness compared to the 
Business As Usual of these mass murderers.
2. Hundreds of millions of people, literally, around the globe identify 
with the protests and their aims and will not hesitate to defend them 
against the armies of the powerfull and against their propaganda onslaught.
Unfortunately billions more do not. They too are discontented but cowed 
into believing that there is no alternative.
Still, it is their discontent of which the 200,000 in Genoa were but the 
spearhead. It is them the bastards are afraid of and are throwing bones to 
- aid for Africa, some funds against AIDS, some cosmetic percentage of 
carbon dioxid less(?).
3. Now, did the black block(s) contribute to the struggle against the 
overlords? Nope. It is just desperate phantasizing to claim that their 
actions will "hurt the capitalist pigs" (quote "flamma"). In a week, 
everything will be back to normal in Genoa for them. Our asset is NOT to 
hurt them by smashing some windows, that is just ridiculously ineffective. 
(In that regard - spraying a message on the window is 100 times more 
effective - it reaches millions of viewers and can't be distorted like the 
message of a broken window or burnt out building.)
Our asset is to draw in more hundreds of millions of people. But burning 
Fiat cars and smashing residents' windows will help to prevent exactly this 
from happening.
4. I think it is about time the black block people realised who they are up 
against. Do you really think you will smash Corporate Capitalism by going 
from town to town smashing up their shops? It won't happen in three livetimes!
No, we have to TAKE OVER! People in McDonalds themselves have to take over 
and smash Ronald into pieces! Imagine next time not just cab drivers will 
be on strike but the building workers who had to put up the barrier for the 
Red Zone too. Landless peasants in Brasil squatting LAND, now that is the 
way forward, not just ramshackle houses, but their VERY LIVLYHOODS.
O.K., this won't happen everywhere tomorrow, but the seeds for it to happen 
are there in every collective disobedience against our boss, in every doubt 
about the legitimacy of their rule.
So comrades, get your perspective right and find a mechanism of how to 
control the macho instincts of some of your followers.

www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/8039

-------------------------------


Thank you
by Diana 5:40am Sun Jul 22 '01

It is a polic choice to attack the pinks & whites, not caused by the Bloc. 
Do not waiver.


-----------------------------------

rethink
by maikel 5:51am Sun Jul 22 '01

please, dont follow spectacle. this is both to blak blok (whatever is this) 
and to there criticals. black block, or blocks, must think about the 
compromised situation that they create for other people that are not 
pacifists but not violent. please, dont became pacifists but rethink your 
strategies and tactics, because they are dangerous for other militants, and 
even worse, for yourself. Be care of yourself.
And some criticals must rethink too. its easy to equalize violence from 
state and from the BB, but this is bullshit. its not the same. of course 
you have the rignt to be angry about BB and the situation they help to 
build, but they are not the same thing of police. I am angry too, but i 
recognice the difference.
Anyway...after Genoa we all must to discuss and debate more and more and 
more and more...because we are many worlds in one world. And BB is our 
world too.
But one cuestion to BB: how do you think the other people is? I mean, the 
revolutionary people that have differences with your means of faight?


---------------------------------------


liberalism is a social disease
by jerome 10:18am Sun Jul 22 '01 (Modified on 1:25am Mon Jul 23 '01)


I think that all pacifists need to remember that 6 million people died in 
concentration camps-mostly because they felt that passive resistance was 
the way to defeat the nazi's. wake up and fight for change.


---------------------------------------

rule 1
by mnl63 11:53am Sun Jul 22 '01



anarch rule 1; only consensus destruction
how to?...?????????


------------------------------


OKA

by TAZ 7:00pm Sun Jul 22 '01

the only good fascist is a DEAD FASCIST..... TODOS SOMOS MARCOS

---------------------------------------


POLICE MENDED SMASHERS

by M.P 7:52pm Sun Jul 22 '01 (Modified on 7:51pm Mon Jul 23 '01)

Since I am in genoa and thus a witness to most of these events and since i 
know anarchists- friends of mine- which participated with the black Block 
demonstration i am able to confirm that division between some of the Black 
Blocks who were there in the objective to engage into targetted destruction 
and others who were probably ( unfortunatly ) there to break everything and 
create a climate of harsh violence. The later group seem to be in 
connection with the police because as they burnt cars and smashed the 
windows of small shops ( owned by genovese ) the police made no attempt to 
stop them . On the other hand , they charged peaceful protesters and beat 
them heartily.


-----------------------------------------


estremismo, malattia infantile del comunismo

by politta 10:53pm Sun Jul 22 '01

Condannare la violenza come tale non ha valore di grande argomentazione, 
perchè è vero che tranne casi rarissimi la violenza in tutte le sue più 
striscianti forme è stata ed sembra ancora essere, purtroppo, il motore 
della storia. Forse ogni cosa nuova ha bisogno di nascere insieme ad un 
atto di distruzione che sia reale o simbolico, demonizzare non serve, 
occorre piuttosto sforzarsi di capire; i black block fanno pensare a molte 
aree di emerginazione (emerginazione relativa quale quella dei ricchi G8) 
in cui hanno agito in questi anni, senza che nessuno se ne sia poi 
particolarmente preoccupato. Parlarne, informare sul loro operato, sui loro 
obiettivi può essere un modo per comprenderne le ragioni, capire chi sono, 
come nascono ed agiscono, è anche un modo per arginare le violenze che 
potrebbero venire.


--------------------------------------


In mourning...

by Swede 12:41am Mon Jul 23 '01 (Modified on 12:57am Tue Jul 24 '01)

I am in mourning. It's so fucking sad that a protestor is dead. But stop to 
think...

Can we control the police? No. So why rant about their bad behaiviour. We 
who have seen their repressive side know how they act.

Can we control ourselves? Yes. So that is what we should do! If we act in 
one way the police responds in a certain way. If we act another way they 
respond differently.

So who do we change, the police or ourselves? Ourselves of course.

The Black Block (BB) has to see that their methods are no more effective 
than the methods of the people they critizise. The BB-people who "target" 
property makes it easy for those who just want to destroy in general. The 
destroy/beat-the-police-fraction of BB makes it easy for the police to 
attack all protestors and get away with it.

And BB actions must be very easy for the police to infiltrate. And police 
provocateurs always want more violence, not less. So be mindful of most 
violent protestors, they are often the least revolutionary.

And BB-people: Of course the police is responsible for Carlos death, but 
you helped create the tension that made it happen, whether you wanted to or 
not. This is a fact!

You have to think about and reevaluate your methods. They may seem radical 
but there are much more radical groups in Genua. They may seem 
revolutionary but there are much more revolutionary groups in Genua. They 
may seem anarchist, but there are much more anarchist groups in Genua.


-----------------------------

What will BB do about provocateurs?

by Sean 2:31am Mon Jul 23 '01 (Modified on 6:21pm Mon Jul 23 '01)

I think Black Blockers have to face the fact that, after Genoa, their 
tactic has proved to have failed:
1. the "diversity of tactics" has been narrowed to one: street-fighting or, 
even worse, narrow property damage. (what happened to unarresting people?)
2. property damage has gone from being targeted to being general, has gone 
from political statement to depoliticised looting.
3. the effect, far from being attractive/radicalising/inspiring, has only 
damaged what little unity the movement overall had, polluting the sea that 
the BB swims in.
4. the whole thing has become easy for police to mimic, making it 
tailor-made for the actions of agents provocateurs.
Time to rethink the tactic, dudes.

-------------------------------


HAHA!

by Nelson 7:38pm Mon Jul 23 '01 (Modified on 8:00pm Mon Jul 23 '01)

hehehehehehe...... we are those who you trust and tell others of your 
actions before they happen...


-------------------------------

All anarchists and libertarians deserve to die.

by Cheopys 8:03pm Mon Jul 23 '01

It is interesting how INDYmedia has creatively manipulated this information 
over the last couple of days.

In a previous post on this very website, you showed the same images at 
different sizes that prove that the man throwing the red tank is not the 
man killed by police. First of all, the man throwing the tank is in a white 
tank top t-shirt and (in your previous re-sized image) gray pants. The dead 
man in the street (in your previous posted images) was WEARING a black 
jacket, and dark blue pants. Now, in your later images, you have cropped 
out the gray pants of the red-tank-thrower, and removed an intermediate 
picture that shows the dead man WEARING the jacked. Pretty convenient, I say.

Did the man throwing the red tank have time to put on a jacket and change 
his pants before dying like a dog in the street? Or, are you manipulating 
the images to attempt to get a point across.

You call yourself INDYmedia, and may be independent of the major media 
sources, but this does not, obviously, prevent you from being biased, and 
untruthful, and manipulative. Try again next time.

---------------------------

who are the black bloc

by kieran 8:04pm Mon Jul 23 '01

I spent three hours getting through the city on friday to reach the pinks. 
That meant going through the are the black bloc were smashing up and 
burning down. i saw them then and the next day when they fought with 
police. But I haven't them since - not on buses, in the imc, travelling 
about. unfortunately being a peaceful protester with very different ideas 
and tactics I rarely get to hang out with people that would be in the black 
bloc. Can someone who knows more please tell me. Which nationality are most 
of them? What is their political stand point? Are they organised in any 
way? How do they justify burning cars and smashing traffic lights (I saw 
this happen)? I'm interested, please tell me.


----------------------------

A old and negative Idea

by Pablo 10:14pm Mon Jul 23 '01

I think that the idea of the violent action as a revolutionary one is a 
real very very old idea. It was the idea of Ravachol, Henry, and others 
that don't came to the result of Anarchy or at least some social reform, 
but only to repression indiscriminate of the state against the oppositors.
Last days in Genova it was the same thing.
Then, this groups are easy to infiltrate. there are news of nazi militant 
of "forza Nuova" who smashed window etc to create chaos. and some policemen 
too!
at the end, this groups are useful to the system they declare (honestly, I 
think) to fight.Make a rating on this comment.




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